The Big Smoke

Lesley, many people including myself have to be around people who wash themselves in perfumes, shopping indoors, walking past them in the street, stuck in lifts with them, all bring on what you describe. I would not dream of them being banned though, they want to poison themselves, it it up to them, but remember it is the dose the doth the poison. It is also an irritant to many.
My Grandson is terrified and goes mad when a bug goes near him, his Mother will admit to giving him that fear, so how do you know the same has not been passed on to your Son. Have you never heard about the children a couple of years back who passed out one by one and yet I do not believe they found the cause.

Lesley
May I suggest that you stay away from roads that contain traffic, as vehicle fumes will have far worse effects than a cigarette if you have health problems.

I have some sympathy for your health problems Lesley, one of my children was a chronic ashtma sufferer, I would however in fairness point out that traffic polution has as much, if not more effect on Ashmatics so really it is impossible to pin it on smoking as do other allergens some of which are natural.
A slow and painful death eh? in my time i Have survived an aircrash, been burned try get survivors from a burning aircraft, have been shot, I am very much alive the shooter is not and been in a car crash now why would death worry me? Yes i am an ex serviceman.
I served my time defending you and your rights as have hundreds of thousands before me 6000,000 of my kind died because of a tyrant who would have ensured you did not live because of your ailments. A huge sacrifice on your behalf isn't it. Now some of the people who share your viewpoint have decided it was all in vain by dictating lifestyles, the very thing they died to prevent.
Now I am a reasonable man Lesley so why cannot a compromise be reached? allow the landlords to decide how to run their buisinesses, 80 000 on the dole Lesley some with children, the same children that ASH claim to protect! Made paupers their lifestyles destroyed in this climate it is unlikely many of their parents will find work especially with a recession on the way.
Would you not agree that seperate pubs staffed by smokers for smokers is a better way forward, no non smoker would need to be in there unless they wanted to be but that would be their personal choice, yopu would still have your smoke free pubs and hopefully would not have to suffer too greatly.
If you were commenting on people in your position I would naturally consider your plight, unlike ASH's propaganda people like me are not monsters, demons, we are human beings and are equal to non smokers and better than the small minority that heap abuse on us and tell us we are "untermensch", and to be fair Lesley I don't include you in that category.
I accept that you do have a difficult life but you were trying to speak from a smokers point of view, now if you had come at from an non smokers angle I would actually of accepted your comment at face value, i may not have agreed and indeed say so but I would of accepted the point.

Don't threaten me Lesley I have reported your post for just that even though you tried to mask it with 'Friendly'. I can see exactly the type of person you are by your reaction to my posts, and so can everyone else. but back to the job in hand. Let me ask you an honest question before you get me banned from here as well as my local pub. If as you say you have never smoked, how can you be qualified to comment on smoking issues. You don't state as to wether you drink alcohol, gamble or indulge in sex. I ask because if I come up against you on other forums in the future, then I may offer you a little more courtesy. Now back to the enjoyment of smoking. It is relaxing, it helps to stimulate the mind when working on problems. It helps to reduce stress when dealing with people like yourself, who never having known the benefits of smoking interfere in the legal pursuit of smokers and the persecution of smokers out of some selfish or ignorant befief that you know best. That sort of attitude is bound to create ill feeling towards you or have you not noticed that everyone on this board is attacking you? You are the odd one out and you are stifling free comment on this board primarily because the truth hurts and it is the anti's way to silence anyone who has an opposing view. Millions of people in this world enjoy smoking for what it is - a truly wonderful experience. It is social and it brings together like minded people who like the atmosphere of a proper pub, no doubt an establishment to which you have never been. That pleasure has now been removed from my and millions of others in this country, pubs close at an alarming rate, workers are now ex workers, the government is losing money hand over fist. and normal everyday people are at each others throats, is this what you want? It sounds like tyrrany to me so don't be surprised if you have to accept some severe criticism. Since there is no name calling or obscenity in this post, I will expect the moderators to leave it alone. If not then I know which side they are on.

Mandy just to let you know I am not guilty of getting any of your posts removed, it was only Marley's name-calling I objected to as inappropriate and unacceptable. I am not trying to silence anyone who is not being abusive.
Soapy what I think you and many other smokers do not appreciate is the very unpleasant and even debilitating effect second hand smoke can have on some of us.
It actually causes me pain in my chest if I breathe SHS even from a smoking person walking near me in the street, I also get a bad headache and phlegmy throat and chest, and cannot stop coughing for quite a while, I have real problems with my breathing from it, it's not very nice when I am just walking along getting my daughter to school and not doing any harm to anyone (bonfire smoke has a bad effect on me too).
My 15 year old son also gets a pain in his chest a few seconds after getting some SHS in the street, so it looks like it's a hereditary sensitivity.
Why do you think it is justified for smokers to do this to non-smokers? It's like an assault the way I experience it and it's not as if I am even very unusual, many asthma sufferers experience something like this, probably worse than me as I don't even have asthma. So you see it's not for me to justify myself, it's for those who hurt others to justify why their pleasure is more important than other people's suffering.
If the pleasure for you is so great that it does not bother you that in the future you will be more likely to die a slow and painful death from Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease, or cancer of the lung, that is up to you as it's your body, but it's not for you to inflict it on others.
The ban on smoking in indoor public places has changed my life, there are so many places I can now go, and actually things are no worse outdoors than they were before, if anything the ban has made smokers in general more considerate outdoors. At the bus stops I notice people smoking usually tend to stand a respectful distance away from people who are not smoking, which they were less likely to do even a couple of years ago. You may call it social engineering, I call it more considerate behaviour and am happy with it.
My opinion is perfectly valid when it comes to knowing how some smoke-sensitive people suffer from passive smoke, will you at least concede this point?

Lesley. Is drinking an addiction or a pleasure? Is sex an addiction or a pleasure? Is eating an addiction or a pleasure? is playing football an addiction or a pleasure? What on earth is the difference between an addiction and pleasure?

Thank you for your opinion Lesley, I trust you have no objection to my exercising my right to reply.
It is an opinion not an valid argument, in fact it is a flawed opinion, as you admit you have never smoked then how could you possibly know what a smoker feels or does not feel?
Unless you actually experience smoking and I do appreciate that you you don't like smoking , you cannot be qualified to state how someone else feels about smoking, of course smokers discussing smoking have smoking in common and eminently qualified to speak of their feelings.
If you asked ten smokers why they smoke you will get ten answers, in the same way as you would if you asked ten people thier favorite colour some will agree some will have a slighty different view. They will all have their own reason for their preferences all will be equal as a point of view.
So Lesley you have expressed your point of view, I have looked at it and rejected it as being contrary to my own as have a number of others here, thank you for expressing your view.

I have had some posts removed, anyone know the reason?
freedom2choose.info for tolerant non-smokers and smokers alike, please join us

Lesley your bigotry and contempt for any other view than your own is so apparent that you are now sounding foolish. You need to find a new argument, so why not find some real, true facts to support your stance, instead of the fictional and deluded findings of the anti's. Better still be honest, if you don't like smoking and the pleasure it gives to 25% of the world, just say so and then bugger off back to your little world. Others will respect your view even though they may disagree with it. If you have nazi sympathies, just say so. but please do not try to justify the denormalisation of others according to your narrow view of the world unless of course you think you are better than everyone else. How sad are you?

The Nazis introduced smoking bans. Our Government has done the same.
The Nazis had stormtroopers to enforce 'rules'. We have coucil workers doing the same.
The Nazis used children to promote propaganda. Our government is doing the same.
How can anybody compare our Government with the Nazis?

if a small minority of non smokers choose to use Nazi techniques, propaganda and turning sections of society against each other then they richly deserve the comparison, sometimes the truth hurts and if you are hurt then look at your actions and ask would I allow someone to treat me like I'm treating smokers?

I wrote this comment in July 2007, it still holds true apart from the site change, so knew one- Ohh, and I think they changed where the HSE has been quoted, differant page and paragraph-Social engineering here we come.
See the hatred begin! Heil the perfect people.
for those tolerant non-smokers and smokers alike, we at freedom2choose.info are fighting to amend this ban to in include ventilation, We need your support.
8th August 2006 the HSE in their document OC 255/15 article9 state
" HSE cannot produce epidemiological evidence to link levels of exposure to second hand smoke to the raised risk of contacting specific diseases".
9 The evidential link between individual circumstances of exposure to risk in
exempted premises will be hard to establish. In essence, HSE cannot
produce epidemiological evidence to link levels of exposure to SHS to the
raised risk of contracting specific diseases and it is therefore difficult to prove
health-related breaches of the Health and Safety at Work Act.
Paranoia and intolerance is NOT healthy for our children!

It's very offensive to compare anti-smokers to the Nazis and all it does is discredit your cause to make such ridiculous comparisons.
I'm not advocating rounding up smokers and killing them (they do seem to have a death wish though).
I certainly do denounce my mother for smoking around me when I was a child, because it caused me health problems, mainly recurrent chest infections.

I take it as said you found that Hitler was a vegetarian andanti smoker, now compare what the Nazi's were doing in 1936 through to 1939, they ran a propaganda program using the children, just like today they demonised the the jews just as some of the anti smokers do to smokers, they taught the children to denounce their own parents, this is beginning to happen now. they have the nerve to corrupt the children and blame the smoker for it just like the Nazis did with the jews, these are direct comparisons Most of the germans by the end of the war said they were not Nazis everyone knew a "good jew" will it be the same with smokers?
you seem to take offense at the comparison, perhaps your conscience is bothering you, if so then there is hope for us all.

Lesley
Hitler had the trains running on time to the death camps.
The storm troopers had actual power of arrest and they relished its use. Just like our council staff. Do you agree that OUR stormtoopers should have that power?