Two queer New Yorkers from different generations talk Pride

The NYC Pride parade is drastically different today than when it started. What was conceived in 1970 as a passionate, political protest of homophobia has become a mainstream, corporate-branded festivity—one that, this month, will include 106 sponsors. In short, the procession is a reflection of how the queer community is now more widely celebrated.

RECOMMENDED: Full guide to Gay Pride in NYC

Michael Formika Jones, 50, is an envelope-pushing artist who, as drag queen Mistress Formika, rose to prominence in the alt-queer scene of the early 1990s. E.T. Chong, 30, is the producer behind the Onegaishimasu, a buzzy, of-the-moment Bushwick LGBT party that toasts queer Asian and Pacific Islander folks. On a sunny Tuesday in May, the two got together to have a lively chat about New York’s transformed gay scene, meeting at the classic bar the Monster in the West Village before making their way to Christopher Street Pier.

Michael Formika Jones: So, we’re sitting here at this very historic gay bar in the West Village. What was your first experience in a gay bar in New York?

E.T. Chong: It was a party at Le Bain, in 2011, that my friend was hosting. I was like, OMG, New York nightlife is so much more diverse than anything I imagined.

MFJ: My first experience was crazy. I moved here from L.A., and I went to this club called Mars. It was this broken-down, four-floor building, and each floor had a different type of music. It was amazing. There were people naked, sucking dick—there was sex everywhere, drag queens. I thought I died and went to adult heaven. I worked at this restaurant, Florent, in the Meatpacking District at the time, and I would go around the corner to get bagels and see two guys fucking between semis. Once I got a call on a pay phone that was just like, “Do you have a big dick?”

ETC: [Laughs] When did you get here?

MFJ: Nineteen eighty-nine—and it was out of control, but [Rudy] Giuliani ruined it all. He was a piece of shit. But let me ask you, what was your view of New York before you moved here?

ETC: When I got here, I thought there was sex everywhere, but I’m sure it was different in 1989.

MFJ: Yeah, the pier where we’re heading today was just full of guys—naked, sucking each other’s dicks—and that was just normal. Every bar had a back room. One thing I will say is that gaining more equality has separated and isolated New York gays in a way. There was more of a community back then. You didn’t just go to a club, stand with four of your friends and ignore everybody, then show your butthole on Grindr later.

Photograph: Matt Bernstein
Michael Formika Jones

ETC: Interesting. I think it is a double-edged sword. I think equality had to happen, and I see what you’re saying about what may have been lost. But, for me, being a person of color, it probably would have been harder for me then. Now, I’m able to cultivate my own community of people that looks like me, and in 1989 that didn’t exist. Not as often.

MFJ: That’s true. There were black communities and Latin communities, but you’re right that there wasn’t a big Asian community. It did use to be more that, if you were oppressed, you just dealt with it and accepted that you were a second-class citizen. That has changed.

ETC: How has your relationship to Pride changed since you got here?

MFJ: Well, we used to call it Gay Shame Day because we weren’t really a part of those Chelsea gays and the masc-for-masc community that was at the forefront then. All the floats were just titty queens, and it didn’t really accept more-alternative types. But then, when we started doing floats and ended up being accepted as freaks, it changed for us: We were able to find our own kind of pride in the parade. My first Pride, I wore heels for the first time. I practiced for days in my apartment and then walked down all those blocks in a pair of goddamned heels. I was really proud of that. But we felt a disconnect then to the larger gay community in the same way that you’re talking about.

ETC: I worked Pride when I first moved here, and it was surprising to see how giant it really was. I think there is a level of acceptance now for the larger dialogue and culture. People can forget the pain and oppression [of the past], though. It’s like the word queer: Now it means everything, so it can start to mean nothing, whereas it used to be another way for someone to call us faggots.

MFJ: The big factor of what’s changed in New York’s relationship with the gay community is money. Look at the parade—it’s Absolut, all these corporations. We used to have this party on the West Side: Everyone would get crazy, and there was tons of booze. That’s taken away.

ETC: But a lot of that energy has just moved to Brooklyn. Bushwick is probably the heart of it right now. The queer art community is centered there, and all of those types of parties are happening. I throw an Asian S&M party, and this month, for the first time, we’re going to have a back room. So, that wild energy is still around.

Photograph: Matt Bernstein
E.T. Chong